The Outspoken Sportsman
hosted by Bill Moore
The above photos were taken 8-4-06 by John Ingersoll in the defendants neighborhood. Note the date on the photos.
This photo was received from the DNR files taken at the field office in Indian River on December 21,2004 showing the eye color clearly is brown!
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Our Local Newspaper, The Petoskey News.com
Some readers will recall the controversy over another white buck that was shot in the area a few years ago. The great debate was over whether or not the deer was a rare and protected albino or a not-so-rare and not protected piebald.
www.petoskeynews.com/articles/2007/12/16/outdoor/outdoors98.txt
This is why I continue to fight. In our small community 3 years later, it is still unclear if I am a criminal, by shooting a ¿rare and protected albino deer¿ I am a husband and father along with an avid sportsman. I will continue to fight until my name and reputation are cleared.
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What type of person is John Ingersoll? Here¿s just a little peak. www.michiganyouthhuntprogram.com , please read all 5 sections, Home Page, Program Info, How to enter, 2008 Hunts & Sponsors and Archives.
As a sportsman I believe we have responsibility to pass on our hunting heritage to the next generation. We need to teach them by example how to keep our sport alive by being a good sportsman or sportswoman.
Where are my legislators, fellow sportsmen, Hunting & Fishing Organizations in the heat of this battle? Please find someway to help resolve this issue! You could be next..............
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HOW DID THE ALBINO LAW GET PASSED?
"It has been illegal since 1990 to kill an all-white or albino deer in Michigan, but there is no biological reason not to shoot one. The state Natural Resources Commission imposed the ban at the behest of the late Joe Mack, a powerful legislator from the Upper Peninsula. Mack asked for the no-shooting rule to placate a constituent, who was upset because someone killed a white deer he had been feeding. Mack’s district included Marquette County, where a number of semi-tame piebald, albino and white deer live in Presque Isle Park. - J.I."
REBECCA A. HUMPHRIES
March 13, 2008
Mr. John Ingersoll
7170 Tuscarora Circle
Indian River, Michigan 49749
Dear Mr. Ingersoll:
This letter will respond to the documents received by the Department of Natural Resources (DNR) on February 6, 2008. On February 28, the Governor's office forwarded your e-mail to me and asked that I respond to it on behalf of the Governor.
In both the e-mail and from the documents you have provided, I have determined that you contend the following three things: 1) your Constitutional rights were violated, 2) that DNR Law Enforcement personnel intentionally and willfully provided misleading and false testimony resulting in the dismissal of your civil action, and 3) that the DNR's role in these events damaged your reputation.
Let me establish at the beginning, that I have undertaken this review with no prejudice as to the outcome and with an open mind in an effort to provide you with a fair opinion and response to the issues you have presented.
Violation of Constitutional Rights
In your e-mail to Governor Granholm, you allege that your Constitutional rights have been violated by the DNR. In reviewing the documents pertaining to the collection of the hair and hide sample, I assume you believe that those materials were collected illegally as a violation of the 4th Amendment.
Q: "Well, don't you think that that's a 4th amendment search and seizure violation, without a warrant?"
Acting Law Enforcement Chief, Rodney Stokes, addresses this question in his December 13, 2007 e-mail, to which I refer in part:
"It was “Sgt” decision to obtain a small hide sample from the taxidermist shop. Since it was at a location where no expectation of privacy was expected or requested, and it was a business that is regulated under DNR laws where we do routine inspections, the DNR did not believe a search warrant was necessary."
While I do not personally have a working knowledge of the various investigative protocols in this case, the actions taken by these officers do not seem unreasonable. The collection of the hide and hair samples proved to be instrumental in determining that the deer you harvested had naturally occurring brown spots. This was critical in concluding that this deer could legally be harvested.
I must disagree that these actions were inappropriate, considering how they supported your assertion that this was a legal deer.
Obstruction of Justice and intentionally providing False Testimony
In the written documents you provided, and in addition to your testimony at the March 6, 2008
Natural Resources Commission meeting, you accuse two current and one former Law Enforcement officers of obstruction of justice and perjury.
Based upon the very serious nature of these allegations, I paid particular attention to the testimony given by the officers in question. From the materials provided, which did not include the full text of each deposition, I do not agree that these officers intentionally provided false testimony. My review of their testimony simply did not reveal this intentional and coordinated effort to mislead.
However, if you believe that these accusations can be proven, I would recommend that you notify local law enforcement or your county prosecutor's office. These officers should have an opportunity to formally respond to these allegations.
Restoration of Your Reputation
Our officers investigated the question of whether or not your deer was a legally killed deer or an illegally killed deer. That investigation determined that it was a legally killed deer. You were not criminally charged, and you were not issued a citation. The fact that you were not charged or ticketed should serve as evidence enough that you legally killed that deer.
As a matter of course, the Department does not publish otherwise legal behavior in the newspaper. It is the duty of these officers to investigate complaints, which in this case they did, and based upon that investigation no further inquiries into the matter were made. Again, you were not charged with a crime, nor were you issued a ticket.
If others, as a result of a media report, believed otherwise, that is unfortunate. If you feel that you have been or are unfairly portrayed in the media, perhaps writing a letter to the editor clarifying that you were never charged nor ticketed would help put the matter to rest. As I indicated in the previous paragraph, the fact that you were never charged with a crime or issued a citation is testimony enough to the fact that the DNR believes this was a legally killed deer.
Conclusion
Your situation has helped reveal to the Department that the rules and regulations relating to albino deer need to be changed. Over 20 years ago, the protections for albino deer were written in statute. As the environmental and natural resources laws were codified in the early 1990s, that law was converted to a regulation in the Wildlife Conservation Order.
I have asked our Wildlife Division to prepare an order for the Natural Resources Commission that would make the harvest of an albino deer legal in the State of Michigan. Truly, in cases whether it is initially difficult to determine whether a deer is legal or not is burdensome to the hunter. Moreover, there is no compelling scientific reason to protect these deer as albinism represents a mutation that is not desirable in a deer herd.
You have obviously gone to great effort to resolve this matter, and I understand the time and resources you have committed to that resolution. The DNR has also committed a great deal of its time and resources to resolving this matter as well. This letter represents the final determination of the Department and, from this point forward, we consider the matter closed. I thank you for bringing the matter to my attention.
Rebecca A. Humphries
Director
517-373-2329
cc:
Governor Jennifer Granholm
Representative Gary McDowell
Natural Resources Commission
Mr. Peter Manning, Assistant Attorney General
Ms. Mindy Koch, Resource Management Deputy, DNR
Mr. Daniel Eichinger, Acting Legislative Liaison, DNR
Mr. Rodney Stokes, DNR
On Feb. 28, 2008, I received the following e-mail from your office (below), I have since received a letter from DNR Director Rebecca Humphries (attached) "However, if you believe that these accusations can be proven, I would recommend that you notify local law enforcement or your county prosecutor's office. These officers should have an opportunity to formally respond to these allegations."
I have a problem with that solution.
- These officers have worked directly with this prosecutor (Conflict of interest)
- Cheboygan County Prosecutor refused to give me documentation regarding allegations that the DNR went to them for possible prosecution. Which could have helped put some problems to rest, some time ago!
Original Message:
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Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:08:25 -0500
Subject: Response from the Governor's Office
Dear Mr. Ingersoll,
Thank you for contacting the Governor's Office to express your concerns about the Department of Natural Resources (DNR).
To ensure that your concerns are given immediate attention, I have taken the liberty of forwarding your information to Director Rebecca Humphries' office of the DNR for their careful review and consideration.
I have asked them to look into your specific situation and to report their findings directly to you.
Again, thank you for contacting our office on this important subject.
Respectfully,
Monica
Issue Specialist
Constituent Services Division
Office of Governor Jennifer M. Granholm
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The following article came from The Lansing State Journal
Published March 25, 2008 http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080325/NEWS01/803250361
[ From LSJ.com ]
Stupid deer law? You be the judge.
Midday update
John Schneider
Lansing State Journal
How Laws Get Passed (the unauthorized version):
State Department of Natural Resources Director Rebecca Humphries wants to make it legal to kill albino deer during the whitetail deer season in Michigan, reversing a ban that has been in effect for 20 years or so.
Humphries argues that the law, as it now stands, is both an unreasonable burden on hunters and biologically unsound.
So why does the law exist? The answer appears to be a classic tale of a senator using the state legislature as his personal playground.
According to DNR spokeswoman Mary Detloff, the protection order on albino deer - pure white creatures with pink eyes - was the work of former state Sen. Joe Mack, a Democrat from Ironwood who fiercely represented the Upper Peninsula for 30 years in the House and Senate.
Mack, Detloff wrote in an e-mail to me, "apparently had a constituent at the time who had a pet albino (deer) they wanted protected. When the game laws were codified in the early 1990s, the law became a wildlife order that has since stood."
I'd love to hear that from Mack, himself, but he died in 2005 at age 85.
The Natural Resources Commission will likely invite public comment on Humphries' proposal before deciding whether to adopt it or not.
Read Wednesday's Lansing State Journal for more on this report.
Lansing State Journal
DNR official calls hunting ban
on albino deer 'burdensome'
http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080326/COLUMNISTS09/803260340
Published March 26, 2008
By John Schneider
Lansing State Journal
"How Laws Get Passed" (the version you won't find in your civics book):
State Department of Natural Resources Director Rebecca Humphries wants to make it legal to kill albino deer during Michigan's regular whitetail season, reversing a ban that has been in effect for 20 years or so.
Humphries argues that the law, as is now stands, is both unreasonable for hunters and biologically unsound.
Why it exists appears to be a classic tale of a senator using the state legislature as his personal playground.
But more about that later. First, a little background:
On March 13, Humphries wrote a letter to an Indian River man who's been engaged in a battle with the DNR for more than three years over a deer he shot in Dec. 19, 2004, in Northern Michigan's Emmet County.
The key question was whether the eight-point buck was a true albino, which would have made it illegal, or a 98 percent white piebald animal. There were some brown spots on the deer and its eyes weren't pink like a typical albino's.
Hunter wins
Eventually - after an epic struggle - the hunter, John Ingersoll, was exonerated. He subsequently challenged the DNR's methods in the case and the March 13 letter from Humphries addressed Ingersoll's complaints. Toward the end of her three-page letter Humphries wrote:
"Your situation has helped reveal ... that the rules and regulations relating to albino deer need to be changed ...
"I have asked our Wildlife Division to prepare an order for the Natural Resources Commission that would make the harvest of an albino deer legal."
Humphries wrote that forcing hunters to identify albino deer is "burdensome," adding:
"Moreover, there is no compelling scientific reason to protect these deer, as albinism represents a mutation that is not desirable in a deer herd."
So, if forcing hunters to distinguish between albinos and piebalds is unreasonable, and if albinos are bad for the herd, how did protecting them become law?
The answer is my favorite part of this story.
Birth of a law
According to DNR spokeswoman Mary Detloff, the hands-off order on albino deer was the work of former state Sen. Joe Mack, a Democrat from Ironwood who fiercely represented the Upper Peninsula for 30 years in the House and Senate.
Mack, Detloff wrote in an e-mail to me, "apparently had a constituent at the time who had a pet albino (deer) they wanted protected. When the game laws were codified in the early 1990s, the law became a wildlife order that has since stood."
I'd love to hear that from Mack himself, but he died in 2005, at age 85.
The Natural Resources Commission will invite public comment on the proposed change.
It's possible, Detloff wrote, that some members of the public will want to preserve the albino's status as protected mutation.
There is roughly one albino for every 30,000 deer. They're spotted all over the state.
What do you think? Call John Schneider at 377-1175, send a fax to 377-1298 or e-mail jschneid@lsj.com.
Include your name, phone number, city, town or township.
Comment from LSJ.com: http://www.lsj.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080326/COLUMNISTS09/803260340 "Piebald Deer Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:48 am Just like the gossip sessions I encounter regularly at sports shops I read opinions and comments here branching out from the original topic? John Ingersoll. was violated by the DNR, local news papers, TV media, local law enforcement and our states govenment. Had he, you or I done any of the things that were done TO him, it would not have taken 3 yrs to get a partial resolve to the matters. This is sad...With a strong play on words and using the LAW to suit their needs and in justifing law enforcement officers excusses for breaking the law! John was never after getting a law to hunt white deer changed but, it is a good change.
The Outdoor Pressroom March 25, 2008 Mich. DNR chief wants to end albino deer protection http://outdoorpressroom.typepad.com/outdoorpressroom/2008/03/mich-dnr-chief.html "Michigan Department of Natural Resources Director Rebecca Humphries wants to make it legal for hunters to kill albino deer during the state's whitetail deer season--reversing a ban that has been in effect since the early 1990s--on grounds that the protection is both an unreasonable burden on hunters and biologically unsound................"
Field & Stream Magazine: March 27, 2008 Albino Bucks: Would You Shoot This Deer? Should Michigan Protect Albino Deer? http://fieldandstream.blogs.com/whitetail365/2008/03/should-michigan.html
Several years of public forums were held prior to the new indian treaty taking place and very few persons or groups partisipated. Did you attend? So shut up, deal with it or change it! I realize the travisty that was done to the Indians over 200 years ago was wrong and not our fault, BUT it has been allowed to get to this point so live with it.
Issue after issue will continue to be topic of conversation every where we go. Pro this, anti that. Its our right to have opinions, and its also our DUTY to get involved and vote. These are the only people who should be voicing their opinions! I didnt ask if all who posted here were registered voters and IF they vote, but I would guess some are not.
I take my hat off to John Ingersoll who had the courage to stand up for himself against temendous odds and not back down. He has had and still has a long road ahead of him in his quest for justice. I consider myself an ethical person and hunter, BANG! I would have take that shot too...."
http://www.fieldandstream.com/article_gallery.jsp?ID=1000021522&page=22
I would like to thank Bill Moore, Rory Mattson,
Kenneth, William, Mary & Bill, Ronald, David,
U.P. Injustice.com and savemymichigan.com for all your
support, letters of encouragement and donations.
Thank You
John Ingersoll
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| Ingersoll Piebald Updateþ | |
| From: | John & Beth Ingersoll (ingersoll614@charter.net) |
| Sent: | Sat 4/26/08 9:37 AM |
| To: | John & Beth Ingersoll (ingersoll614@charter.net) |
New to the DNR website: http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/08-08_Antlerless_Open-Closed_4.11.08_232172_7.pdf
Albino deer may lose protection
The DNR is considering a rule change.
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Posted: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 at 5:24 p.m.
UPPER PENINSULA -- The Department of Natural Resources is
considering a rule change that would allow hunters to harvest albino deer.
The animals have been off-limits for decades, but this week the Natural
Resources Commission will consider changing the regulation. Based on
hunter reports, it's been estimated that about one in 30,000 deer are albinos.
State biologists believe there's no scientific reason to protect albino deer.
Some residents, though, consider them a wonder of nature.
A new law would also make it easier to control all exotic white deer species
that have escaped from game farms in the Lower Peninsula.
"By removing the protection on albino and all white deer, we're also relieving
the protection on those exotic escaped species, and they can be taken as
legal harvest," explains Ann Wilson of the DNR.
The NRC is seeking public comment on the proposal.
If you want to contact the Commission, go to the News Links section
on the TV6 Web site.
http://www.wluctv6.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=130942
http://www.theoutspokensportsman.net/dnrisconsidering.htm
This topic can be found on our forum at: http://www.theoutspokensportsman.net/bureaucraticbsforum.htm?forumID=1948414&page=1&topicID=1008049
The following are a couple of WLUC TV6 forum comments posted at:
http://wluctv6.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=130942 by John Ingersol.
Albino deer may lose protection
I would like to challenge WLUC TV6 to report the real story on the Albino Law.
MDNR corruption of Officers that is now being investigated by the
Criminal Division of the Michigan Attorney Generals office.
John Ingersoll
— John Ingersoll, Indian River
Removal of Protection for Albino and All-White Deer Wildlife Conservation
Order Amendment No. 8 of 2008
The MDNR changed the law due to their officers not being able to identify the
animals. Plus corruption in their department by Officers.
"He subsequently challenged the DNR's methods in the case and the March 13
letter from Humphries addressed Ingersoll's complaints. "
Conclusion Your situation has helped reveal to the Department that the rules
and regulations relating to albino deer need to be changed. Rebecca A. Humphries
"Moreover, there is no compelling scientific reason to protect these deer as
albinism represents a mutation that is not desirable in a deer herd." Rebecca A. Humphries
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dnr/08-08_Antlerless_Open-Closed_4.11.08_232172_7.pdf
http://www.theoutspokensportsman.net/huntervsdnr.htm
For a full view with pictures
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2724486&mpage=1
— John Ingersoll, Indian River
Click on http://wluctv6.com/news/news_story.aspx?id=130942 to view all
of the TV6 forum comments.
The Outspoken Sportsman Forum on this subject:
http://www.theoutspokensportsman.net/bureaucraticbsforum.htm?forumID=1948414&page=1&topicID=1008049
Legal Description
• Albino – a deer with all white or colorless hair (pink eyes)
• White – a deer with all white or colorless hair similar to an albino deer. (brown eyes)
Genetic Description
• Albino
“True albinism is due to lack of pigment. A true albino deer will have all white hair,
grayish hooves and pink eyes. The eyes appear to be pink because, in the absence
of pigment, the blood can be seen coursing through the blood vessels.” (The deer
of North America by Leonard Rue 3, pg 182)
• White
“The Seneca Army Depot in New York State has an entire herd of white deer.
Although their coats are white, their eyes are brown and not pink, as in true
albinism.” (The deer of North America by Leonard Rue 3, pg 182,183)
The Natural Resources and Environmental Protection Act, 1994 PA 451, as
Discussion and Background:
It is burdensome to the hunter to determine if a deer is an albino deer
This order is being submitted for information and consideration. This item
Douglas A. Reeves
Acting Chief Ronald A. Olson
Chief Wildlife Division Parks and Recreation Division Lynne M. Boyd
Chief Patricia A. Spitzley
Chief Forest, Mineral and Fire Management Division Office of Legal Services
Rodney Stokes, Acting Chief Law Enforcement Division
Arminda S. Koch Dennis Fedewa Resource Management Deputy Chief Deputy
I have analyzed and discussed these recommendations with staff and concur
Rebecca A. Humphries - Director
Sec. 3.100. (1) A person shall not use a rimfire firearm .22 caliber or smaller for the taking of deer.
(2) A person shall not pursue, capture, shoot, kill, chase, follow, harass, or harm a deer while
*Keith J. Charters, Chairman Natural Resources Commission
Approved as to matters over which the Director has authority.
*Rebecca A. Humphries Director
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